Margaret thatcher's death

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Margaret thatcher's death

Post by sayWut on Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:00 pm

April 8, 2013, London
Margaret Thatcher, Died


" Margaret Hilda Thatcher, Baroness Thatcher, LG OM PC FRS was a British politician who was the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1979 to 1990 and the Leader of the Conservative Party from 1975 to 1990 "

So as I mind my own business I hear more and more on the news and adverts about this woman.

Before I say more lets state some actual facts.

Most brits actually hate her. Why?


She was a manipulative old woman who destroyed community's and unions she was relentless in her campaign and bought misery for our country.

Spoiler:
Judged against certain criteria, she had a point. Few enjoy paying tax: her time in No 10 saw the basic rate fall from 33p to 25p and the top rate plunge from 83p to 40p. Everybody enjoys more disposable income: during her premiership, the average salary rose from £5,427 to £15,252. She also oversaw a decline in the annual number of working days lost in strikes from 29.5m to 1.9m.

Dig beneath the surface of these statistics, however, and a different picture emerges. In order to achieve constructive changes, Mrs Thatcher subjected Britain to a sequence of destructive upheavals. Her cure for the UK’s ills was attractive enough for a portion of its population to vote her into office three times, but the medicine was so objectionable she never received majority support.

In short, the apparatus she used to achieve her goals harmed just as many - if not more - than they helped. This was because her policies tended to involve short-term pain for many, but long-term gain for only a few.

Inflation doubled

Rather than stimulating the economy through investment and tax cuts, she tried to control the amount of money in circulation. Mrs Thatcher thought this would reduce inflation from its 1979 level of 10.3%. It didn't. Inflation doubled within a year and only fell to present day levels of 2-3% in 1986.

By this point, the damage had been done. To get to such a low level, indirect taxes had been hiked (VAT rose from 8% to 15%), as had interest rates (topping 17%). Subsidies for industry were reduced. The result was a massive rise in unemployment from 1.4m in 1979 to 3.5m by 1982, or one in eight people out of work. "I knew that when you change from one set of policies to another, the transition is very difficult," Mrs Thatcher later reflected, "but benefits would come in the longer run."

A disunited kingdom

Benefits did come, but not for everyone. Long-term unemployment blighted an entire generation in Northern Ireland (where 20% of people were left out of work), Scotland and the north-east and north-west of England (16%). Supporters insisted work was there to be found; critics argued it was unreasonable to expect people to leave homes and families to take a job 100 miles away.

A disunited kingdom emerged, as some parts of the country flourished while others faltered. Industry declined in the north; new sectors such as financial services boomed in the south. Mrs Thatcher went further, advocating both economic and moral belligerence. There was "no such thing as society, there are individual men and women and there are families." People should look to their own and not rely on the government for help.

This crystallised into her observation that the only reason the Good Samaritan did any good was "because he had money". Fine: everyone wants money and some made a lot during the Thatcher years, but what if you happened to live in a place where you couldn't earn any?

Selective prosperity

The prosperity Mrs Thatcher brought to Britain was selective, antagonistic and temporary. She did indeed leave Britain "very, very much better", but only for some. She also left it in recession, with unemployment, inflation and interest rates rising.

Above all, not only was she bad for the country during her premiership, she continues to be bad for the country today. The causes of the present slump - unrestricted credit, deregulation and too much financial speculation - all date back to the 1980s. No successive government dared reverse these decisions: a blessing to her legacy, but a curse we must now all share.

Sources
The Free Economy and the Strong State: the Politics of Thatcherism; Andrew Gamble
One of Us: a Biography of Margaret Thatcher; Hugo Young
A History of Modern Britain; Andrew Marr
The Prime Minister: the Office and its Holders since 1945; Peter Hennessy
The British General Election of 1983/1987/1992 (all David Butler and Dennis Kavanagh)
The People's Peace: British History 1945-1990, Kenneth Morgan Hansard, June 8 1989
The Office for National Statistics
Halifax Building Society

So what does the rest of the JDR members think. Note this is an open Discussion to everyone ^^

* the information contained in this post isn't personal and bias information This is factual information from multiple reliable sources.

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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by Paper Tiger on Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:39 pm

Well this JDR member has never spent any considerable time in Britain, so I can't really have an authoritative opinion on the matter. Still I do remember my old CO mentioning a few times that it was the economic situation your sources describe that influenced his family into falling apart and subsequently lead him to becoming a contractor back in the 80s. So suppose without the Iron Lady's actions his life wouldn't have turned out the way it did, which in turn would have likely meant a different CO for my company some 20 years later, and possibly a different outcome of our work.

Ironically I don't recall most articles on her death that I saw on the mainstream "media" websites (AOL, Yahoo, etc.) mentioning the negative sides of her political activities. It was mostly "she did this and this and that great and it helped Britain get to where it is today", without getting too much in depth about the cost at which said progress (if one can call it that, I have no first hand experience so I cannot judge) came.
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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by BK-201 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:28 am

Paper Tiger wrote:
Ironically I don't recall most articles on her death that I saw on the mainstream "media" websites (AOL, Yahoo, etc.) mentioning the negative sides of her political activities. It was mostly "she did this and this and that great and it helped Britain get to where it is today", without getting too much in depth about the cost at which said progress (if one can call it that, I have no first hand experience so I cannot judge) came.

That is because Britain is currently under the control of a Conservative government and they wish to control the media of this matter.

What really annoys me is that the British public are being told that the country doesn't have enough money and that cutting back on public spending is the only way to save the country. Thus, the government are making significant changes to healthcare and welfare benefits which actually hurts the most vulnerable people (poor and disabled) saying they are doing it for the taxpayer yet they are spending £10 Million of taxpayer's money on a funeral for a woman that the majority of people hate. Now they are saying "we can afford it".

We all know the politicians are rich and still expenses for their second homes from the taxpayer, so they should pay for the funeral out of their own pockets!
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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by Paper Tiger on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:14 am

I think it has to do with upholding an image. She was, after all, your Commander in Chief who won the Falklands war, which is considered by many the last significant armed conflict between powerful nations. So from political standpoint she is the person who brought Britain its last significant military victory. Which is not to say that current British military is weak, it simply hasn't been engaged in another major two-sided conflict since then (that I know of at least). So in a sense presenting the Iron Lady with an elaborate funeral is a way of showing the world that people who defend Britain's honor are never forgotten even long after they have stepped down. Kinda as if she was some kind of a national hero (which I'm some also view her as). But you get the point I'm trying to make.
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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by steveyk on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:14 am

Totally agree, the only people celebrating this fool are the political establishment who really don't understand their people at all. And let's not forget how she made sure that Argentina went to war with us so she beat the drums of war in an attempt to win another election. How many people had to die for her ambitions. Probably not as much as Blair's but either way she was a complete stooge to the establishment.

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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by steveyk on Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:20 am

Paper Tiger wrote:I think it has to do with upholding an image. She was, after all, your Commander in Chief who won the Falklands war, which is considered by many the last significant armed conflict between powerful nations. So from political standpoint she is the person who brought Britain its last significant military victory. Which is not to say that current British military is weak, it simply hasn't been engaged in another major two-sided conflict since then (that I know of at least). So in a sense presenting the Iron Lady with an elaborate funeral is a way of showing the world that people who defend Britain's honour are never forgotten even long after they have stepped down. Kinda as if she was some kind of a national hero (which I'm some also view her as). But you get the point I'm trying to make.

Did you know that the Conservatives have spent more money that the last 3 government combined? I think they know an inevitable collapse is coming so they are spending like mad because it doesn't matter. This is also evident when you look at other commonwealth countries like Australia who are also spending money like it's going out of fashion.

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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by Paper Tiger on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:31 am

steveyk wrote:Totally agree, the only people celebrating this fool are the political establishment who really don't understand their people at all. And let's not forget how she made sure that Argentina went to war with us so she beat the drums of war in an attempt to win another election. How many people had to die for her ambitions. Probably not as much as Blair's but either way she was a complete stooge to the establishment.
So a classic example of the Ancient Rome tactics of stirring up a big commotion elsewhere to draw people's attention from troubles at home? From what I've read on modern history, it did the trick, as she did get reelected. Well at least the first reelection (her 2nd term) is said to have been the result mostly of the Falklands victory.

steveyk wrote:Did you know that the Conservatives have spent more money that the last 3 government combined? I think they know an inevitable collapse is coming so they are spending like mad because it doesn't matter. This is also evident when you look at other commonwealth countries like Australia who are also spending money like it's going out of fashion.
Maybe I should have clarified, the image I mentioned of upholding is that in front of other nations, not an image in front of Britain's own population. Think of it as the economic version of North Korea's military showing-offs - way more subtle of course, but a public display of power all the same. And of course the locals ain't gonna fall for it, and neither will the international superpowers (US, Russia, China, etc), but some potential trouble-makers just might.

Also I'd think that spending money simply for the sake of spending it is a great way to ensure a decisive loss at the next elections... And a career politician not wanting to be reelected is somewhat of an oxymoron. Then again, I do not pretend to even attempt to understand financial policies on national level.
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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by steveyk on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:50 am

Well in all honesty that would be true on an economic front if we indeed had a clear choice between parties to kick out globalist agenda ideology which is clearly linked to this current economic crisis we find ourselves in. But unfortunately there isn't, all parties obviously support the idea of globalisation, even UKIP have shown their hand when Nigel Farage started having meetings with Rupert Murdoch of all people. They might take us out of the EU and form closer ties to the commonwealth but in essence it's still a global agenda. There is no way to vote ourselves out of this and I hold little faith in the people forming a new party to combat it. It's good to see BRICS nations taking a stand against these things but even they have not created their own central bank yet which means they are reliant on our economics still. It's a shitty world but hey we have to deal with it in our own way. Sometimes ignorance is better than knowing the reality.

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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by Colme on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:20 pm

Globalization /=/ Trade Liberalization

Also, I'm certainly not a Margaret Thatcher fan, but she deserves some respect for leading the UK and getting as far as she did when even today women are still quite marginalized in politics.

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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by steveyk on Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:34 am

"Globalization /=/ Trade Liberalization" Not sure if you want me to understand you here. Can I get the English version haha

I'm fine with recognising that she was the first woman prime minister. That's all though.

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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by BK-201 on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:57 am

steveyk wrote:"Globalization /=/ Trade Liberalization" Not sure if you want me to understand you here. Can I get the English version haha

I'm fine with recognising that she was the first woman prime minister. That's all though.

I agree!
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Re: Margaret thatcher's death

Post by sayWut on Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:12 am


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