Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:10 pm

If it's not already apparent, this thread will be full of spoilers of Bioshock Infinite. So if you haven't played, for the love of god go buy it and then play it. Anyway, onto the discussion.

I guess we'll start of easy. Did you like the ending?
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Valvatorez on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:16 pm

Gave me the feelings of ME3's ending, but less severe.
It's like, it just gave me a huge slap in the face. That time stuff really mind fucked me pretty hard as well.
Also, the cameo of Rapture was probably my favorite part of the ending, especially with DeWitt's snide remarks about a city under the ocean.

Oh yeah, going on that, I thought that the situation was leading to the airplane crashing in the first Bioshock. I would have taken it.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by watermonkey319 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:29 am

Just beat it. Satisfied, although still working out the time-travel/alternate universe logic myself. Loved Songbird's death, mostly because of the Little Sister grieving over the dead Big Daddy in the background at the same time.

Was expecting Songbird to be more present throughout the story, partially because of the implications of the teasers, partially because he's seemingly omnipotent in the scenes he IS in.

Yeah, but as for the ending; again, satisfied for now, I'll see how I feel once I piece everything together.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Valvatorez on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:49 am

I didnt notice the Little Sister and Big Daddy thing.
And yeah, the teasers struck me as this being a bit different with Songbird.
I was hoping for an epic boss fight with him, instead we get a last stand after beating a guy's head in like in Bioshock 1.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by watermonkey319 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:25 am

Valvatorez wrote:
I didnt notice the Little Sister and Big Daddy thing.

lol I'm glad it was there, seeing the SongBird-Bid Daddy Little Sister-Liz parallel kept me from doing laps around Rapture and killing the scene for me.

Anyway, got my thoughts together. Still okay with the ending.

Only lingering thought I have is; why didn't the "Twins" just kill Comstock themselves?

I remember listening to an audio diary where one says they aren't able to because of not physically existing in the conventional sense anymore, but I'm still not too clear on how that works considering they clearly can directly influence things on their own.

Hopefully you guys stuck around for the happier post-credits epilogue.


I'm really hoping for some story DLC where you get to play as "Daisy's Booker", the one who teams up with Slate again and helps dies a Vox hero. In fact, that's the most plausible story DLC I can think of right now.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:42 am

watermonkey319 wrote:

Only lingering thought I have is; why didn't the "Twins" just kill Comstock themselves?

I remember listening to an audio diary where one says they aren't able to because of not physically existing in the conventional sense anymore, but I'm still not too clear on how that works considering they clearly can directly influence things on their own.
Yeah, I'm not entirely sure on that myself. If they had the power to drag Booker through a tear, give him a shield and so on, why didn't they go back a drown Booker? Perhaps playing through a second time, knowing what is coming, you'll pick up on details that explain this. More than the Voxaphone anyway. I'd also like to know who the dead guy in the lighthouse was. Was he just an unimportant NPC? Or am I missing something?

Regardless, I loved the ending, and the entire game. While I'm still probably caught up in the rush of playing the game, so I can't say for sure, I might go as far to say I liked the game more than the original Bioshock.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Valvatorez on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:04 am

Bioshock 1 & 2 are still my favorites.
This didnt really have the Bioshock feel until you hit Rapture, and I guess you can go back and say the Vigors were opposites of the Rapture Plasmids.

I really would have liked the ending to tie in with the 2 Bioshock's as well in a way.
Whats-his-face's hydrosphere wasnt there, and since I forget the times where both Bioshock 1 & 2 started along with Infinite.
Would there have been anyway to tie them both in for a different ending?

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:16 pm

Valvatorez wrote:
Bioshock 1 & 2 are still my favorites.
This didnt really have the Bioshock feel until you hit Rapture, and I guess you can go back and say the Vigors were opposites of the Rapture Plasmids.

I agree that this game doesn't feel like a Bioshock game, but I wouldn't say that's a negative. Ignoring Bioshock 2 for a second, I saw the first Bioshock game as a survival horror type of game. I see Infinite as more of an adventure game. Whilst in Bioshock you essentially were just trying to get the hell outta Rapture and survive it's many monsters until then, Infinite's focus lies on Elizabeth. In that sense, I feel Infinite's story of saving Elizabeth (and finding out how she relates to Booker) is stronger than Bioshock's story of unraveling the mystery behind Rapture. Not to say that Bioshock is therefore weak. I think it's great that we live in a world where both can exist, and are both different-enough from each other that they can stand on their own. As for Bioshock 2, I think it's great, but that's mostly because it's reliving the experience from the first game.

Valvatorez wrote:
I really would have liked the ending to tie in with the 2 Bioshock's as well in a way.
Whats-his-face's hydrosphere wasnt there, and since I forget the times where both Bioshock 1 & 2 started along with Infinite.
Would there have been anyway to tie them both in for a different ending?
I don't think Levine ever intended on Bioshock 1&2 being chronologically related to Infinite. I see the inclusion of Rapture at the end as a little fan-service for those who have played the previous games. Essentially, Elizabeth explains it as a another world with a different story, which is how I think Levine sees it.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by watermonkey319 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:28 pm

I went in expecting a fundamentally strange city, extremist philosophy-driven characters, guns, and magic powers. Got what I expected. I don't exactly remember Levine jumping through any flaming hoops to say Infinite wouldn't be related to the previous installments, but the fact that he put it about 5 decades beforehand and made the location the physical opposite of Rapture kinda turned me that direction, so I wasn't let down by it.

For the record, 1 and 2 were set in the 60's.

As for what time Liz and Booker actually show up in Rapture; I'd assume after Jack considering the tunnel he walked through's still busted.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:57 pm

http://www.geek.com/articles/games/bioshock-infinite-isnt-a-sequel-but-is-still-bioshock-20100817/

That's the article which makes me assume Levine never intended on it being a sequel, or in this case, a prequel. Maybe since then he changed his mind, and that's why he included Rapture, but I take away from it as being some fan-service whilst also demonstrating that Elizabeth can open up whole new worlds. Though I wonder if it's implying that Elizabeth created the world in which Rapture exists, or if they're just "visiting" it.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:31 pm

Yeah, double post, but I've been all over the interwebs looking at different theories and I've came back with my favourite interpretation of the ending. To quote someone from the Irrational Games forum:

"I was under the impression that the first time Elizabeth takes Booker to the baptism, it is clearly in a timeline where he refuses. And the second time (when they drown him), it is clearly in a timeline where he has already decided to go through with the baptism. The preacher is finishing the speech that gets interrupted in the timeline(s) where he refuses; he's asking Booker what his new name will be once the baptism is done.

They're not killing Booker before he's made the decision, they're killing all of the Bookers in the set of timelines where he gets baptized. They are killing off all of universe 1, but allowing all of universe 2 to continue to exist. Because if universe 1 is eliminated, there is no Comstock, there is no Columbia, and there is no Comstock invading other timelines in universe 2 to take Elizabeth.

In the realities that are left intact, Booker still gets married, his wife still dies in childbirth, and he is still a drunk who is deep in gambling debt. But instead of being a drunk loser who is so desperate that he is willing to sell his daughter, he comes out of the entire experience changed. Maybe he only partially remembers what happened as if it was a dream, or he doesn't remember it at all. But the events of Bioshock Infinite somehow stick with all of the universe 2 Bookers on some level--the way some enemies' deaths stuck with them in realities where Booker hasn't killed him--opening up the possibilities fora better life for him and Anna."

Also, after much searching, it appears that the Lutece twins are deliberately vague. Is isn't really made clear who's side they're on. They do help Booker, but is that to provide for their "thought experiment", or do they genuinely feel guilt over the destruction they caused by aiding Comstock? I don't think this is the last we'll see of them. I imagine they'll be in at least one of the dlcs.

Speaking of which, if all 3 of these dlcs turn out to be like Minerva's Den (from Bioshock 2) and we get some more story for the songbird, the handy-man and the Lutece twins, I'll be a happy customer.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by watermonkey319 on Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:16 pm

I'm still curious about the material they gave up for the trailers.

Remember that crazy Democracy/Communist swapping version of (what I'm assuming was) Comstock we see the first trailer we see the crow tonic in?

How about that one tonic that allowed you to telepathically lift an enemy's gun from him and shoot him with it mid-air?

I don't really mind if they were just made for promotional hype, but if they weren't, I wonder how they moved the story originally.

I kinda wish they kept that "housewife casually humming while she sweeps in front of her burning house" scene in there somewhere.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:53 am

Yeah, I noticed a lot that was different in the game compared to the trailers. Through a few interview with Levine I've seen, he's definitely acknowledged that these previous versions were all drafts and that like a writer who will change a lot before the final piece, they also had to go through the process of removing things and adding things. I don't really miss their omission. Though I had seen the same footage you had seen, and because of a part of it involved Elizabeth being weakened by using her powers, I was worried about a negative from using the tears for a lot of the early to mid game xD. A nice nod I have noticed is that the Elizabeth seen in that footage was in fact one of the other Elizabeths that appeared at the end of the game.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Wampa on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:30 pm

alright just finished the game a few minutes ago and i was satisfied with the ending to an extent, it was an interesting ending at the very least that i'll take. I liked the twins as characters and hope to see more of them in the dlc and maybe more of what songbird is, also does the choice of pendant for Elizabeth have any effect on anything or is it just nothing besides what she wears?

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:46 pm

None of your choices really matter. It's all to emphasize that no matter what Booker would do, the outcome would be the same. Remember the heads or tails thing? The Lutece's had tried dragging 122 different Booker's before the one we were playing as. They all failed. I suggest looking up some threads on the matter if you are confused about the ending. There's basically an explanation to everything.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Wampa on Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:27 pm

i havent read anything on the ending yet was sorting out what i thought i knew about it first unrelated but a friend posted this on facebook
http://kotaku.com/this-crazy-bioshock-infinite-easter-egg-cant-be-real-464902193
seems extremely unlikely but interesting none the less

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by MiniSiets on Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:29 am

Just finished this a few minutes ago. I thought it was one of the best endings I've ever seen in a game. I love how they leave you with just enough information to piece it all together and they provide you with the final piece of the puzzle right at the last second. I totally didn't see it coming, but when it did, it all starts to make sense when you think about it.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by Yuki Terumi on Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:37 am

I really hope the developers don't come out and tell us what everything means. Or at least, not for a while. Seeing the theories and discussions has been almost as fun as experiencing the game. I have my own interpretation of the ending, and while I don't understand everything, I'm enjoying speaking to others who might have their own thoughts on what it means.

Not to forget, this is a video-game we're talking about. While it might not be perfect, the fact that you can talk at lengths about what everything means in a video-game is something to be happy about. It's rare when we can do that.

Also, none of us have really said what we thought happened in the ending. Just what we thought of it. So, what are your guys' theories?

Without going into several paragraphs: I like to believe that by drowning Booker DeWitt at the point where he had accepted the baptism, they managed to kill any Comstock's that would exist after the baptism while also preserving the life of all the Booker's that didn't go through with the baptism. I think the scene we see at the end is a Booker that exists in a world where he left the baptism, but due to Comstock never existing, he never gives his daughter away. I also like to think that he has faint memories of the past Booker (be it he believes it was a dream or w/e), and that due to the adventure through Columbia he will be able to be a better father to Anna.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

Post by SkepticalDragon on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:34 pm

I didn't play the game, this series didn't interest me enough, however I did watch reasonable portions of it on YouTube and I have read about it... did I also mention I stayed at a holiday inn?

The overall game narrative didn't impress me.. but there is a bit near the end where they appear in Rapture... which they comment how unbelievable that city UNDERWATER is! Blatant product placement aside... YOU JUST CAME FROM A CITY THAT FLOATED ON CLOUDS... and a city underwater is hard to believe?!?!?!?!?!?

confused confused confused confused confused confused confused
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Re: Bioshock Infinite Ending Discussion (SPOILERS)

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