Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by Metazoxan on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:40 pm

BlurredExistence wrote:
Metazoxan wrote:Well I could understand wanting to help people. Like if you believe in hell it is the right thing to do to try to guide them along the right way and if you believe in science perhaps you might feel like trying to teach people. But there is taking it too far and that is the problem that started this thread. Religion people can sometimes seem pretentious when "saving" people and Athiests can seem like stuck up know it alls when trying to "Educate" people. So people have to choose whether to just stay out of the lime light and not help nor hurt anyone or try to help at the risk of going too far. Well certainly not everyone has noble intentions but those that do probably have to make that choice.

The thing is we now (and have been for a good number of years) live in a world where information is not only available in abundance but is frankly ridiculously easy to access, preaching, in whatever form it takes, is no longer necessary. Those whom wish to know can find out on their own initiative, without being badgered into it, finding their path on their own, and those whom don't; well there's always going to be the "wilfully ignorant" no matter how you try to spread a msg. Regardless there's little defence any more for trying to impose your own views upon another, you can't claim as you once could that without your interference people would go "unsaved" or "uneducated". The world is truly now a place where each of us can go out and find the relevant information that'll enable us to make up our own minds on a subject and, personally, i think the greatest shame is that so many people don't.

okay I can't exactly agree with that. The internet is very vast with information ranging from every opinion imaginable. There is a difference between just looking something up on a computer and talking to someone face to face about it. That is why schools, churches, Libraries, etc still exist today. Sometimes you just need someone who you feel you can trust knows what they are talking about. Sure the internet is a powerful tool that can help you with a lot of things but it can't replace them completely. I actually did a paper once on the internet and how there are things some said would die out because of it yet they haven't and show no signs of doing so. I obviously can't put all of the paper here but the point of having a person "Preach" or "teach" you is to give you that human interaction and guidance.

If all that mattered was information all churches would need to do is hand out a bible and a few other books and say job done while evolutionists would just hand out some thesis papers. Obviously neither side should badger people but again if you are doing that you are taking it a bit too far.

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by BlurredExistence on Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:51 pm

Metazoxan wrote:okay I can't exactly agree with that. The internet is very vast with information ranging from every opinion imaginable. There is a difference between just looking something up on a computer and talking to someone face to face about it. That is why schools, churches, Libraries, etc still exist today. Sometimes you just need someone who you feel you can trust knows what they are talking about. Sure the internet is a powerful tool that can help you with a lot of things but it can't replace them completely.

Your wrong assumption there was that i was just talking about the internet, which i wasn't. Information is far more widely available than it ever has been via all sources. Anyway, you're wrong about there being a difference in learning via a computer and being taught by a person, one can learn in a multitude of ways and none of them are any better or worst than another, the only factors that do matter are than the source material is correct and that the mind is able to learn. Schools exist to ensure that you learn the appropriate information necessary for living within society and beyond that does little to teach you things that are worthwhile, they're guides little more and there's no set way of teaching in schools to claim they could be anything more (they're constantly messing around with how students are taught within schools). Libraries are one of the sources i was talking about anyway. Churches still exist cause religion's deem they must, probably cause organised religion can't trust the masses to come around to their way of thinking on their own. (Sorry if that sounded conspiratorial or bashing, it's not intended in such a way. It's more social commentary, just like how Politicians can't trust us not to vote for the other guy so they constantly send out campaign ads which no one, but the supporters they already have, pay attention to.)

If all that mattered was information all churches would need to do is hand out a bible and a few other books and say job done while evolutionists would just hand out some thesis papers. Obviously neither side should badger people but again if you are doing that you are taking it a bit too far.

Why? Seriously why would it be so wrong for everyone to be presented with the information and decide upon their own? Why? If your way of thinking can't stand on it's own without your interpretation to guide another into thinking of it the same way then obviously there's some kind of a flaw in the way that either your information is presented or in the information itself (which would be hardly surprising with the Bible considering how it consistently contradicts itself thruout (as someone else had already pointed out rather well earlier in this thread)).

I actually did a paper once on the internet and how there are things some said would die out because of it yet they haven't and show no signs of doing so. I obviously can't put all of the paper here but the point of having a person "Preach" or "teach" you is to give you that human interaction and guidance.

If you do have it hosted somewhere send us a link. I'd be interested in reading it.

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by Colme on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:17 pm

I always find it depressing when people equate a their equal right to express an opinion as an equal claim to truth. Freedom of expression/religion is merely the right to be wrong, it doesn't preclude the possibility of being right, or suggest that being wrong is impossible.

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by BlurredExistence on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Colme wrote:I always find it depressing when people equate a their equal right to express an opinion as an equal claim to truth. Freedom of expression/religion is merely the right to be wrong, it doesn't preclude the possibility of being right, or suggest that being wrong is impossible.

Well said that man! I'd also like to interject that "Freedom of Speech" is not a defence for being obnoxious or insulting, as it so often is used on the internet.

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by MiniSiets on Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:36 pm

Colme wrote:I always find it depressing when people equate a their equal right to express an opinion as an equal claim to truth. Freedom of expression/religion is merely the right to be wrong, it doesn't preclude the possibility of being right, or suggest that being wrong is impossible.
Yeah, I find when someone says, "Everyone is entitled to their opinion," it usually translates to, "Please don't criticize my beliefs." Just because you have the right to an opinion doesn't mean it can't be wrong.

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by SkepticalDragon on Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:35 pm

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts."
AND
"There is a difference between your rights and what is right."

I regretfully have to deal with people offline who are in many cases far worse than religious trolls online. The words of one of my doctors of sociology comes to mind, "I hate people! But I love to study them!"
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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by Belsfir on Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:56 am

The best thing to do when you are unwillingly approached by those who wish to spread their beliefs is to either act as if you are too busy to be bothered with conversation, or simply tell them that you have "made your decision", just that simply. The worst thing you can do is to react.

It is best to keep in mind that these "missionaries" only seek out potential converts, its their "mission". They really only want to find people who have not made up their minds. Don't try to pick a debate or argument with them, its pointless.

There is nothing wrong with people sharing their beliefs. After all, if you are to make the best possible decision on the matter, it is best to see what all parties offer. If you made a decision, then simply put it to them that you did, converse no further and carry on. If you haven't it is probably best to give consideration, but do not get too involved initially.

Btw, these missionaries can be of any religious affiliation, or of none (being an atheist)



On another note, I remember a quote from a certain atheist scientist, who's name escapes me. Never the less, the quote said that "it takes as much faith to believe that there is not a God as it does to believe there is".

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by Colme on Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:34 pm

Belsfir wrote:The best thing to do when you are unwillingly approached by those who wish to spread their beliefs is to either act as if you are too busy to be bothered with conversation, or simply tell them that you have "made your decision", just that simply. The worst thing you can do is to react.

I always ask if they have free religious texts. I've gotten a copy of the Quran, the Torah and the Gita this way. Wink

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Re: Religion. Tolerance. Acceptance.

Post by Doomguy on Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:16 pm

Colme wrote:
Belsfir wrote:The best thing to do when you are unwillingly approached by those who wish to spread their beliefs is to either act as if you are too busy to be bothered with conversation, or simply tell them that you have "made your decision", just that simply. The worst thing you can do is to react.

I always ask if they have free religious texts. I've gotten a copy of the Quran, the Torah and the Gita this way. Wink

I do that as well. Usually gets them off my heels If I listen politely take whatever they want to give me then wave them goodbye. Wink

Due to the way I was raise, religion is a personal issue to me. I think you can only find your answers on your own. I will never become "sure" of what I believe. Constant questioning and philosophical thinking keeps me on my toes and prevents stagnation.
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