Surveillance Technologies

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Surveillance Technologies

Post by SkepticalDragon on Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:44 pm

Recently there was a meteor sighting in Russia, which because of the prevalence of dash-cams on civilian motor-vehicles there are numerous videos of this sighting now on YouTube. I was reflecting if these were more common in the United States if it would be discouraging to scammers and hit-and-run incidents... also incentive for drivers to drive correctly. But my thoughts wandered to if it should be required which brings up in my mind all the complicated issues involved in panorama freedom and expectation of privacy.

Police are already required to have dash-cams on their cars which can be used either for or against the officer since it can either confirm their accusations or bring accusations on themselves. Other countries, for example the United Kingdom, have been increasingly using more cameras for surveillance of roadways or high crime areas which has been useful in prosecuting crimes (most of all against the homeless) and expanding enforcement of roadway procedural and safety laws. Public accessible locations and even some private homes have cameras that record people outside or inside their facilities which assists in theft prevention and following up with prosecution. There are even automated traffic cameras and speeding cameras to catch red-light runners or speeders.

Indeed many more unmentioned surveillance technologies exist and are being employed by individuals and communities already, both for benign and malevolent purposes. As a liberal libertarian I am divided, privacy seems to be ever dwindling but yet public openness/transparency seems to be vital to a free and open society. Also despite my concerns of hyper-surveillance there is seemingly good use for it at times... but how to balance this out leads me increasingly into uncertainty.

With increasing and improving access to surveillance technologies what place (if any) does it have in our lives and communities?


Last edited by SkepticalDragon on Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by Doomguy on Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:59 pm

That meteor is pretty crazy. Survallence camaras in "PUBLIC" places seems OK to me. Private property should be up to the owner of the said property.

There's not much people can do for satalites though. Such power is necessary but needs to be very open in order to prevent abuse. I want to know who is at the "controls" if you know what I mean.
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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by plantkingman on Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:37 pm

Surveillance can be a good thing. But sometimes it can get to carried away.
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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by sayWut on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:54 am

the main reason car drivers have cams on there cars is due to there insurance and the fact that there are so many car crashes and bad drivers in Russia.

I think surveillance in general it is a real benefit and out ways any disadvantage, ofc we all like our privacy but when your out in public people see you anyway, thus a camera should be allowed to see and protect you.


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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by BK-201 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:23 am

I don't have an issue with surveillance in order to protect. My problem is when this is used to control and or other alterior motives. The more surveillance tech we allow in our daily lives the more we lose our freedom and privacy.
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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by sayWut on Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:52 pm

BK-201 wrote:I don't have an issue with surveillance in order to protect. My problem is when this is used to control and or other alterior motives. The more surveillance tech we allow in our daily lives the more we lose our freedom and privacy.

Yea I agree with that completey , and can understand that, however tbf with all these police cuts, I think we need them , as there are so many less people patrolling the streets now its ridiculous.....

You just gota think there not spying on you there just motoring for criminal activity! its a hard subject to discuss as theirs the plus with that it helps reduce crime and keeps us safe, then theirs our freedom and right to privacy.

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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by Doomguy on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:01 pm

It's important to know who's at the controls. I don't want some fat Chinese hacker drinking a soda and eating cheetos on a old IBM to look in on me you know what I'm saying Wink
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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by Kusanagi on Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:46 pm

I don't really care if I'm being watched by some random guy I'll never meet. It wouldn't become relevant unless I'm breaking some sort of law. Surveillance is fine for me. The only problems are the possibilities attached to surveillance. For example, if other freedoms or just stuff in general are limited for the sake of surveillance, then that's a problem.

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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by MiniSiets on Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:23 am

Kyouma disapproves of surveillance tech. Didn't you all see Steins;Gate? It was because of SERN's global surveillance system that I was forced to reverse all those Dmails.

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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by SkepticalDragon on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:39 am

One of my concerns is reckless law enforcement and prosecution resulting from surveillance. I am very hesitant about automated cameras issuing citations to speeders and red-light runners... or anything for that matter. But also the kind of intelligence gathering that comes from civilian surveillance, including for commercial purposes.

For example many search engines are now trying to implement "predictive" scripts to improve advertising, search results, and more by making a best guess about the person based on previous search results... which the end result tends to make a construed virtual image of that person meaning the internet is senselessly different for that user. This also tends to be the result of civilian surveillance as it creates a sort of legal fiction about a person based on best guesses. Even with judicial oversight and warrants as a liberal libertarian I am very cautious about such intrusions into privacy.

So I suppose when it comes to enforcement or prosecution resulting from surveillance I want it done with fair and impartial judicial oversight and warrants when after the fact a complaint is filed. When it comes to commercial and intelligence purposes I am resistant to predictive or speculative profiling of people, moreover these broad or vague warrants that seem to be increasingly common.

This is a video from ACLU, defense lawyer, and youtube commentator LiberalViewer about the United States surveillance and intelligence gathering operations used hypothetically to combat organized terrorism and crime.

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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by MiniSiets on Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:03 am

On a serious note, it's difficult for me to draw an exact line in the sand for when video surveillance has gone too far, but I definitely think there is one, and some examples you mentioned certainly cross that line. I do think people should be allowed to set up their own surveillance systems to protect their private property, but there should be limitations to when and where it can be used, especially when government is involved.

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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by sayWut on Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:36 pm

MiniSiets wrote:On a serious note, it's difficult for me to draw an exact line in the sand for when video surveillance has gone too far, but I definitely think there is one, and some examples you mentioned certainly cross that line. I do think people should be allowed to set up their own surveillance systems to protect their private property, but there should be limitations to when and where it can be used, especially when government is involved.


Again this is such a touchy subject. that CCTV for homes would be a good idea, however the main crime is in the cities. We need more officers on the streets jut in general ...

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Re: Surveillance Technologies

Post by SkepticalDragon on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:51 pm

sayWut wrote:
MiniSiets wrote:On a serious note, it's difficult for me to draw an exact line in the sand for when video surveillance has gone too far, but I definitely think there is one, and some examples you mentioned certainly cross that line. I do think people should be allowed to set up their own surveillance systems to protect their private property, but there should be limitations to when and where it can be used, especially when government is involved.


Again this is such a touchy subject. that CCTV for homes would be a good idea, however the main crime is in the cities. We need more officers on the streets jut in general ...
One of my political science professors told us that one of the best ways to avoid a police state is to slightly keep police services undermanned, underfunded, and undertooled resisting them to enforcing the law only when complaints occur. Hypothetically this rationing of resources will encourage police to use what they have more effective at combating serious crime and responding to complaints will ensure that police are only involved when police attention is warranted and wanted. However this in practicality may have a down side that it may cause police services to be under-prepared, undermanned, underpaid, fatigued, and encouraged for statistical performance purposes enforce the law recklessly.

I believe a whole slew of police reform is wanted and needed all across the United States to make the police more benign, effective, and compassionate about what the service they are providing... which I think does mean increasing the statistical amount of police per 100,000 of the population.

But as I was telling someone in 2011 that in a few years this drone technology would be making its way back to the United States for civilian police use... it has come... As Police Drones Take Off, Washington State Pushes Back.


I see you citizen! Should of had a V8!
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