Bleach Dissing Thread

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by MiniSiets on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:47 am

Metazoxan wrote:Yes but what is the point. We know filler is needed since anime quickly catches up to it's manga.
I should clarify about my previous post that it's not actually lazy writing, as I understand the reasoning behind it. The writers are really stuck between a rock and a hard place since they don't have enough manga material to work with. I get that, so poor choice of words on my part. What I should have said is that it's deliberately bad writing, and that's the problem. When they're not allowed to advance the plot, it's just wasting everyone's time. If you're stuck in these sorts of situations there should really only be two options. Either take liberty with the story yourself (a la Fullmetal Alchemist) or more preferably (and the safest route) put the project on hiatus until you actually do have enough material to work with. As for the fans, tough luck that they have to wait. Every good story takes time to make, and truly good artists are smart enough to know what's in their audience's best interest even if the fans can't always see it.

You say that filler is not part of the story; it is just extra, so it is unfair for me to judge the series overall because of that, but that's *NOT* what they bill it as. It is painted as just another episode, or in Bleach's case, entire season of the story, and the episode count just keeps ticking up. Notice for example in Angel Beats! the bonus episode "Stairway to Heaven" is clearly identified as an extra, doesn't further the plot in any way meaningfully, and for a while I didn't even know it existed since I watched the show on Netflix which doesn't bother to include it due to not being essential to the series. That's an extra. Bleach doesn't do this. If I want to skip over the filler, I have to look up an episode guide that explicitly points out where the filler is supposed to end, and even then there may still be subtle context that I miss because of this, and as a nice little bonus it destroys my MAL statistics in the process. The whole thing just seems like more hassle than it's worth especially when you consider there's still going to be filler episodes interspersed between the non-filler arcs anyway.

At the end of the day, I get the reasoning behind it, but I think it's a poor justification for it, and it's perfectly legitimate for me to judge a series because of it. Bad writing is bad writing and no excuses can justify ignoring it. Filler should never exist, it reflects poorly on anime as an artform, and suggests that the studio cares more about the business-side of their work than actually doing it justice. If the writers wish to tell a side story, then it should be clearly labeled as such, and not billed as part of the main series. I guess that's why I just don't like most long-running shounen in general as it runs on a fundamentally flawed design philosophy.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:03 am

MiniSiets wrote:
Metazoxan wrote:Yes but what is the point. We know filler is needed since anime quickly catches up to it's manga.
I should clarify about my previous post that it's not actually lazy writing, as I understand the reasoning behind it. The writers are really stuck between a rock and a hard place since they don't have enough manga material to work with. I get that, so poor choice of words on my part. What I should have said is that it's deliberately bad writing, and that's the problem. When they're not allowed to advance the plot, it's just wasting everyone's time. If you're stuck in these sorts of situations there should really only be two options. Either take liberty with the story yourself (a la Fullmetal Alchemist) or more preferably (and the safest route) put the project on hiatus until you actually do have enough material to work with. As for the fans, tough luck that they have to wait. Every good story takes time to make, and truly good artists are smart enough to know what's in their audience's best interest even if the fans can't always see it.
I say your wrong. Other shows have "Taken the liberty with the story" and FML was a best case senario, and lots of people still hated it enough to warrent Brotherhood. Most series fail while attempting this and sales fail because of it. Sales aren't normally hurt to much by filler since fans know that the plot will come back eventually and some might enjoy that particular filler. Either way it is better for sales to do filler than to risk a story re wright actually working. As for the second I already said fans wouldn't like that plus you really must realize that the anime industry is a buisness. If a show is really popular and is making them a lot of money they aren't going to stop it because they ran out of Material. And really if you were in charge of a buisness would you just throw away something making your money. Yes a good story takes time but the manga writer can only write so fast and the fan base and the industry can't just put themselves on hold while they wait.

You say that filler is not part of the story; it is just extra, so it is unfair for me to judge the series overall because of that, but that's *NOT* what they bill it as. It is painted as just another episode, or in Bleach's case, entire season of the story, and the episode count just keeps ticking up. Notice for example in Angel Beats! the bonus episode "Stairway to Heaven" is clearly identified as an extra, doesn't further the plot in any way meaningfully, and for a while I didn't even know it existed since I watched the show on Netflix which doesn't bother to include it due to not being essential to the series. That's an extra. Bleach doesn't do this. If I want to skip over the filler, I have to look up an episode guide that explicitly points out where the filler is supposed to end, and even then there may still be subtle context that I miss because of this, and as a nice little bonus it destroys my MAL statistics in the process. The whole thing just seems like more hassle than it's worth especially when you consider there's still going to be filler episodes interspersed between the non-filler arcs anyway.
Well obviously. IF they came right out and said "Hey the following season is pointless" then how does that make sense? Bonus episodes are different. They aren't long term filler they are extra rewards that you normally get by buying the DVD or something. In other words they tell you it is extra because they are treating the episode like a prize. As for Mal just lie and say you watched them. It's not like they can somehow auto keep track. Also not all anime have filler episodes. Bleach for example hardly had any (except at this one point but that was rare for it) and one piece had fun with it's filler episodes by making them pure craziness (Like episodes where Chopper is a super Hero or where everyone is rewritten into an ancient Japan setting). Anyway filler is written within the main story to save time but regardless of if they come out and say "This is filler so it's plot is meaningless" so my statement still holds. If you are talking about the quality of the actual series judging it by filler is unfair and honestly pretty petty. I mean filler isn't always that bad (take the three tailed capture arc of naruto or the Sanpakto arc of Bleach). You keep acting like filler is always some disgusting this that is never worth watching and that isn't fair either. Sure it doesn't further the plot but sometimes the writers come up with good material and think about this. For those times that the writers write bad filler can you imagine what they would do to the story if instead of writing filler they were allowed to finish the story their way?

At the end of the day, I get the reasoning behind it, but I think it's a poor justification for it, and it's perfectly legitimate for me to judge a series because of it. Bad writing is bad writing and no excuses can justify ignoring it. Filler should never exist, it reflects poorly on anime as an artform, and suggests that the studio cares more about the business-side of their work than actually doing it justice. If the writers wish to tell a side story, then it should be clearly labeled as such, and not billed as part of the main series. I guess that's why I just don't like most long-running shounen in general as it runs on a fundamentally flawed design philosophy.
Again you keep treating filler like it is always horrible. if you have unreasonable hatred for filler that is your problem but some people either tolerate or enjoy many fillers. So you can't rightfully call it bad writing unless you can give a reason that it is bad besides the fact that you hate it. Sure the bount arc is an example of poor writing but other fillers were written really well and IMO deserved to be part of the main plot. It's not like every arc of the main plot is insteant gold anyway. I mean the fullbring arc was just horrible nonsense and that was a real part of the main story! You act like filler only pollutes a series but if the writers put some effort into it then you jet some fun little side adventures that aren't part of the main plot but still fun in their own right. But even if they are fun they still aren't a part of the actual story.


The reason I want everyone to shut up about filler is people have complained about it enough a hundred times over! There is not a single thing you can say that I haven't heard countless times before. It is all petty complaining about something a lot of series have and it ads nothing to the discussion besides something for everyone to repeatedly moan about. It gets annoying when a discussion reduces to "This show sucks because of filer. Yeah filler sucks. I hate filler. Filler should die!. Blah blah blah blah blah!" really what is the damn point! If you have filler that much then stop being so lazy and take the effort to skip over it. Any minor mentions of it that get mixed into the main plot are just small references that you don't need to know. So watching filler is your choice. So now please discuss the actual series and stop complaining about the extra side stories! We've heard it all already and no one really needs to say anymore.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shinimagami on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:22 pm

Metazoxan wrote:Well he does improve a little. Her gets that new bow, those blade things, and taht super explosion technique. But the problem is his attacks never pack a punch. I mean he can fire a million arrows all he wants but if none of them can hurt anything stronger than a mid class enemy what good are they? That is basically his problem. He has useful techniques but none of them carry enough power to do anything.

But still Tite starts off Renji like he is going to be kinda like Ichigo's rival but Ichigo almost immediately leaves him in the dust after the Rukia arc. Ranji gets that one time where he uses that final form and then he is never that strong again. I MEAN HE NEARLY KILLED A CAPTIAN IN ONE HIT! Plus with this recent arc we see Quincy have the potential to be unbelievably powerful so what excuse does Renji have?

I completely agree..I mean some of Renji's own peers are better and stronger than he is...it's like Renji is a little baby...personally...I thought Renji would have been Ichigo's long time rivial...like Picclo was for Goku in DBZ...but no...Renji is just a p**** now. So disappointing Mad

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by BoredomARISEN on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:15 pm

i think this belongs here
http://www.leekspin.com/

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Pando on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:39 pm

You guys will be able to hate on Bleach a little more pretty soon.


Tite Kubo got a new contract with TV-TOKYO and Bleach will be starting again 03/22/13.

Yay.
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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:46 pm

Kisser wrote:You guys will be able to hate on Bleach a little more pretty soon.


Tite Kubo got a new contract with TV-TOKYO and Bleach will be starting again 03/22/13.

Yay.

So what the hell was the point of stopping in the first place? Bleach was barely off the air long enough for a filler season to pass.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Pando on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:56 pm

Yeah I think it's way too soon to start it up again. They should have waited one more year at least. During the Fullbring arc the ratings went down and they caught up with the manga that was why they ended it. I guess now that the manga is getting awesome there's demand for the anime and they want to bring it back.
They'll catch up with the manga in no time and they'll have to go back to fillers again, that's what I predict. But I'm still excited that it's coming back.
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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Sporadic on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:43 pm

Kisser wrote:You guys will be able to hate on Bleach a little more pretty soon.


Tite Kubo got a new contract with TV-TOKYO and Bleach will be starting again 03/22/13.

Yay.
Why doesn't this have its own thread?






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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:14 pm

Sporadic wrote:
Kisser wrote:You guys will be able to hate on Bleach a little more pretty soon.


Tite Kubo got a new contract with TV-TOKYO and Bleach will be starting again 03/22/13.

Yay.
Why doesn't this have its own thread?



Spor you are way too big a fan of Bleach.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Sporadic on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:46 pm

Mind your business.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by LunarLexal on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:54 pm

I'm kind of indifferent about this new bleach. I don't really care, one way or the other. I might watch it though, just for the heck of it, if I don't have any other anime to watch.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by MrYoSo901 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:08 pm

mmmm kinda liked the Zanpakutō filler, it was interesting to see all those swords come to life
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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shinimagami on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:50 pm

MrYoSo901 wrote:mmmm kinda liked the Zanpakutō filler, it was interesting to see all those swords come to life

Really?!...I hated it. I probably would've liked it better if it had been placed somewhere else...but no...in the middle of a fight it was like "let's talk about something else"...really?!...wtf Mad

yes I do realize that my current avatar is Nell from Bleach...I like the art work and the concepts...I just have an issue with the plot..and the damnedable fillers...

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:57 pm

Shinimagami wrote:
MrYoSo901 wrote:mmmm kinda liked the Zanpakutō filler, it was interesting to see all those swords come to life

Really?!...I hated it. I probably would've liked it better if it had been placed somewhere else...but no...in the middle of a fight it was like "let's talk about something else"...really?!...wtf Mad

yes I do realize that my current avatar is Nell from Bleach...I like the art work and the concepts...I just have an issue with the plot..and the damnedable fillers...

well to be fair when you are an animation team dealing with an author who puts maybe 5 or 10 lines of dialogue in a chapter and fills the rest with two page spreads and stuff it is probably hard enough expanding on the material as it is. Plus the Aizen fights really started to drag out so they probably had not choice but to end in the middle of the fight like that.

BTW I thought we were done crying about filler already........
Spoiler:

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shinimagami on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:01 am

Metazoxan wrote:
Shinimagami wrote:
MrYoSo901 wrote:mmmm kinda liked the Zanpakutō filler, it was interesting to see all those swords come to life

Really?!...I hated it. I probably would've liked it better if it had been placed somewhere else...but no...in the middle of a fight it was like "let's talk about something else"...really?!...wtf Mad

yes I do realize that my current avatar is Nell from Bleach...I like the art work and the concepts...I just have an issue with the plot..and the damnedable fillers...

well to be fair when you are an animation team dealing with an author who puts maybe 5 or 10 lines of dialogue in a chapter and fills the rest with two page spreads and stuff it is probably hard enough expanding on the material as it is. Plus the Aizen fights really started to drag out so they probably had not choice but to end in the middle of the fight like that.

BTW I thought we were done crying about filler already........
Spoiler:

yes...I see that now...this is why I didn't become an animator like many of my family members thought I should. I really think the anime itself would have done better as a franchise if they had waited a few years...the supply and demand is all over the place.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by MrYoSo901 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:28 am

Shinimagami wrote:
MrYoSo901 wrote:mmmm kinda liked the Zanpakutō filler, it was interesting to see all those swords come to life

Really?!...I hated it. I probably would've liked it better if it had been placed somewhere else...but no...in the middle of a fight it was like "let's talk about something else"...really?!...wtf Mad

yes I do realize that my current avatar is Nell from Bleach...I like the art work and the concepts...I just have an issue with the plot..and the damnedable fillers...


and this is why i stick to manga and watch only the fight scenes of the anime.


now speaking of manga imma totally digging unohana's dark side.
Spoiler:






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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shinimagami on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:56 am

that would explain why everyone jumps when she glares at them.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Jayvon on Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:33 pm

The three arcs that make Bleach not bad are the Zanpakutō Arc the the Arrancar Arc and the arc after the Arrancar Arc. if Bleach didn't have these three arcs it wouldn't have survived this long.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Pando on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:05 pm

Save Rukia arc was the best.
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