Bleach Dissing Thread

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Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shogun13 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:29 pm

I think this thread needs to be made so we can post criticism of the work, and comply with the OP of the Bleach Discussion Thread's wishes.
So my main complaint is the plot doesn't seem to be thought out to the next week. It seems like Kubo, for example, forgot Yammy until the end and then pulled 0 out of his ass. He also didn't seem to really think why the arrancar army needed to be made despite the fact that Aizen can oneshot the entire army. Instead he spent time that they used to grow stronger (though that's arguably meaningless) in order to build an army that did nothing. You could argue they were test subjects to make it so that when he did it to himself it worked, and yet that really shouldn't have taken that long. Another problem is that he has no motivation as per normal Shonen rules, so he's bound to have his friends kidnapped or killed. This is not better than the normal Shonen route, because one starts to wonder why the villains always seem to know which woman to kidnap.
Also there's no character arcs, only snappy one liners and half thought out concepts.
Discuss Discuss.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by johnstang2 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:42 pm

I thought it was great up to a certain point then it fell apart.

Spoiler:
I thought it was cool until they finished the Rukia Rescue arc. Then it all fell apart.

Was that when the 'Fillers' started?



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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Kusanagi on Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:10 pm

Genryusai taking up like 7 chapters being a badass and eventually beating the big bad villain. But then surprise, it's actually some random person we've never heard of before whose sole purpose is to be a copy, and then the real big bad comes in and beats Genryusai in like 4 pages with no effort at all.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Sporadic on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:07 pm


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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:09 pm

Kusanagi wrote:Genryusai taking up like 7 chapters being a badass and eventually beating the big bad villain. But then surprise, it's actually some random person we've never heard of before whose sole purpose is to be a copy, and then the real big bad comes in and beats Genryusai in like 4 pages with no effort at all.

and then even before that the vice captain that we say in 2 or 3 chapters tops gets killed and they spend FOREVER on it! I mean why should I care about that guy? Did he ever even say anything beyond a few gasps or reaction lines? Did we see him in any actual fights? I think we saw a little of him but not enough to where I really remember him and we never even saw what his Shikai could do much less his Bankai. Also he is apparently the head captian's Lieutenant but did they ever even mention this is the manga? Then just out of no where he gets killed in a surprise attack and then spend at least an entire chapter morning his death and he even gets a flash back courtesy of Genryusai. It is like all of a sudden this guy actually matters and I'm supposed to feel sad that he died?

Listen Kubo if you want to make a character death matter you have to FOCUS ON SOMEONE BESIDES ICHIGO FOR MORE THAN A SINGLE BATTLE! Give someone else real character development and have other people actually contribute in the final battle. Don't just give all your time to Ichigo, kill off on of the most obscure characters in the manga, and then expect me to care.

This is a little off topic but this is why I like One piece. Even if every character isn't a high class fighter each has an important role. Plus after entering the new world even usopp has gained useful fighting ability. Luffy is still the main character and the strongest of the main cast but Zoro is a close second with Sanji and third and even Nami is pretty strong with those weather skills of hers.

See now that is how you build a cast centered around you main. The rest of the cast isn't as strong as the main but they aren't so far behind that they are all dead weight. and those that just aren't strong enough for high level battles still have very useful skills that they actively use. Like Choppers medical skills or Nami's navigation and weather reading skills. No one on the crew is useless.

Now look at Bleach. What has Chad ever done? He beat up low level soul reapers then got owned by a captain who didn't even need to go Shhikai if I remember. He beats a privion espada and immediately gets owned by a real espada. Kubo sets Chad up as the guy who will "watch Ichigo's back" but he is constantly 10 steps behind Ichigo and only ever watches his back. Same with Uryuu. He never beat a single espada even with Renji's help. Only Orahime has a skill outside of basic combat and her combat skills are worthless.


Let me just make it clear I don't hate Bleach and it isn't too bad. It is just Tite could have done so much better with what he had but neglects so much and then pats himself on the back like he has no idea he did it so poorly.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Mylespol on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:11 pm

all the filler when on too long and was stupid crap (the zampacto filler had like 4 points they could of ended it). then the ending sucked

Note : i didn't hate beach, its probably the reason im still watching anime

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:18 pm

Mylespol wrote:all the filler when on too long and was stupid crap (the zampacto filler had like 4 points they could of ended it). then the ending sucked

Note : i didn't hate beach, its probably the reason im still watching anime

Can we PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT FILLER!!!! Every Shonen has it so get over it. Some like some Bleach filler and others don't. But the filler is just extra and isn't part of the main plot so it doesn't matter in the end. We get it some people hate filler. No critisize something relating to the actual plot of the series please!

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Sporadic on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:33 pm

Filler's bad, m'kay?

Its not just the filler that started to make it shit. Its how often there was filler. I mean the first filler arc started in the episode range of 60 something. Come on now.. And they just up and end the show instead of trolling us a few more times with just a few more fillers. I mean, you already made us suffer through all these excessive, badly written, filler arcs. You couldn't just do it a few more times?

Bleach is a good show. But if you're fortunate enough to start watching it now that its already over, do yourself a favor and cut the filler out. Watch the show with an episode guide.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:37 pm

Sporadic wrote:Filler's bad, m'kay?

Its not just the filler that started to make it shit. Its how often there was filler. I mean the first filler arc started in the episode range of 60 something. Come on now.. And they just up and end the show instead of trolling us a few more times with just a few more fillers. I mean, you already made us suffer through all these excessive, badly written, filler arcs. You couldn't just do it a few more times?

Bleach is a good show. But if you're fortunate enough to start watching it now that its already over, do yourself a favor and cut the filler out. Watch the show with an episode guide.

Then let's cut the filler for the rest of this discussion already. I think everyone has said everything that can be said about filler in this thread and countless others. So please enough of filler related complaints. Just pretend they don't exist or focus on criticizing the manga.

Sorry if I'm seeming pushy but I'm just tired of hearing about filler.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by johnstang2 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:45 pm

FILLER

Oops sorry Laughing

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by MiniSiets on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:45 am

A bashing thread? Oh gawd shogun I love you. This is my specialty.

So one of my biggest pet peeves in anime is when the writers need to get some kind of dramatic effect out of the show because they haven't had it in a while, so they pick some random character to be their guinea pig and "kill" them, but then they NEVER want to accept the consequences of that action, so a few episodes later TROLOLOL guess what he didn't actually die. All that drummed up drama about their death? Yeah, it was just bull****. Bleach seemed to be guilty of this in spades, and the silly thing is it's got way too many characters anyway so it would totally be OK if they just let some people go, but nope, the writers are too attached and immature to let ANYONE go, but they still gotta kill people anyway to artificially inflate the drama level.

And another pet peeve which is far more grievous than the previous is the ever-pervasive filler. Even one episode of filler is a quick way to get me on your bad side, so you can imagine by the time I reached the Bount saga I was straining my hands from attempting to choke my computer screen. When your series starts featuring entire filler arcs, you know there's some serious problems. Needless to say, I derped out at around episode 80 and retreated back to doing something less tedious. I am of course speaking of banging my head against my desk for the next several hours until passing out.

OK OK, I'm exaggerating. Still, the fact that I made it that far before giving up had to count for something. 80 episodes is no small number compared to most anime that I watch, so the series obviously can't be that bad.

But seriously. Filler arcs. ARCS. This is madness; the defecation of artistry in action.

Sorry Zoxmuffins, I love you but I had to mention filler again. I mean it's the big elephant in the room; one does not simply NOT talk about it. Just because lazy writing has become the standard in most shounen doesn't mean we should ignore it as a criticism.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shogun13 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:45 am

There's a very good reason why Bleach has so much filler (even though I feel like most of it is alright) compared to the other big three. It's the fact that a lot of bleach pages are wasted on stab, reaction shot, one line. Naruto is next best in terms of page density, because even if they may have an attack/reaction shot/speech panel they then follow with more action in the next panels. One Piece is even better, the manga is downright ridiculously dense in terms of dialogue and reaction shots in the same panel, with more than one people speaking at once.
And that's why filler. Now go to the other complaints guys.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:19 am

MiniSiets wrote:A bashing thread? Oh gawd shogun I love you. This is my specialty.

So one of my biggest pet peeves in anime is when the writers need to get some kind of dramatic effect out of the show because they haven't had it in a while, so they pick some random character to be their guinea pig and "kill" them, but then they NEVER want to accept the consequences of that action, so a few episodes later TROLOLOL guess what he didn't actually die. All that drummed up drama about their death? Yeah, it was just bull****. Bleach seemed to be guilty of this in spades, and the silly thing is it's got way too many characters anyway so it would totally be OK if they just let some people go, but nope, the writers are too attached and immature to let ANYONE go, but they still gotta kill people anyway to artificially inflate the drama level.

And another pet peeve which is far more grievous than the previous is the ever-pervasive filler. Even one episode of filler is a quick way to get me on your bad side, so you can imagine by the time I reached the Bount saga I was straining my hands from attempting to choke my computer screen. When your series starts featuring entire filler arcs, you know there's some serious problems. Needless to say, I derped out at around episode 80 and retreated back to doing something less tedious. I am of course speaking of banging my head against my desk for the next several hours until passing out.

OK OK, I'm exaggerating. Still, the fact that I made it that far before giving up had to count for something. 80 episodes is no small number compared to most anime that I watch, so the series obviously can't be that bad.

But seriously. Filler arcs. ARCS. This is madness; the defecation of artistry in action.

Sorry Zoxmuffins, I love you but I had to mention filler again. I mean it's the big elephant in the room; one does not simply NOT talk about it. Just because lazy writing has become the standard in most shounen doesn't mean we should ignore it as a criticism.

Yes but what is the point. We know filler is needed since anime quickly catches up to it's manga. Sure they could just stop for a while but then they could have countless fans screaming for more. But filler is not lazy writing. Most filler pails in comparison to the main story because it is not allowed to actually further the plot. They can create filler characters and use them as they please or expand on backstory that will never be relevant or need to be mentioned again but over all their hands are tied. Now you keep complaining about Arcs of filler but this about this. Just one or two filler episodes aren't nearly enough to keep an anime from catching up to its manga (one piece is almost an exception to this as filler arcs are extrmely shows and are really there to set things up for the movies) so since the anime isn't allowed to stop writers have one or two choices: lots of mini filler episodes or a filler arc to kill time for a while. Have you seen naruto Shippuden? Did you see the boat ride Naruto took to meet killer bee to train to control him fox power? Did you see those filler episodes? I mean GOD THAT WAS BORING!!!!! Episode after episode of episodic, painfully generic, and boring filler. Not a single episode had anything of value, none of them had a nice action scene or an interesting plot in it's own right. Now look in the same show when they had the arc involving the three tails and the crystal woman. They created not one but two filler characters and the way the woman develops a bond with the boy and becomes torn between loyalty and love (Motherly love) was rather interesting IMO. Plus it was nice to see another tailed beast that the manga kinda skipped over.

So if filler is going to exist it is better to be in filler form because then at the very least the writers have the time to write something interesting. Some fillers fail pretty bad while others are really good. But anyway now there should be no more need to say another word about filler. It has already been talked more than enough and doesn't need any more. Besides filler itself isn't lazy writing as some filler shows a good bit of effort in it. But anyway can we just focus our criticism to the actual story? Filler is not a part of the story it is extra so judging the series at a whole because of it is unfair. If you really hate it that much just ignore it and focus on the real story that goes with the manga. Heck we can focus our discussion on the manga if that will make you all stop complaining over and over about the same thing.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by johnstang2 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:11 pm

If you are talking strictly Bleach fillers then I really have nothing to add really because I have not seen the manga.

However if you talk about fillers in general then I do have something to add. We all know they exist in anime. They are the stories in anime that exist that was not part of the original manga.

I know about fillers from Naruto (not shippuden).

Spoiler:
In the Manga Naruto leaves for his three year Journey with Juraiya right after the failed Sasuke retrieval arc. Jump ahead and the next episode should have been the beginning of the Shippuden. However we all know that Naruto went on for another 100 to 150 more episodes after that before the Shippuden. Those were all filler episodes. For the most part I enjoyed some of them and gagged on quite a few of them.

Why did they have fillers? Two reasons. One is the Shippuden manga was not out yet. And two the anime was trying to make as much money off the anime's then popularity as they possibly can.

We will always have filler episodes for these two main reasons. It really makes no sense to complain about them.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Doomguy on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:19 pm

The anime just go's on and on. Don't people get tired of watching the same thing every episode? I suppose it might be a good time burner though but not to me.
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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by johnstang2 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:23 pm

Doomguy wrote:The anime just go's on and on. Don't people get tired of watching the same thing every episode? I suppose it might be a good time burner though but not to me.

You are so correct on that one. I rarely go past the 100th episode of any anime I watch. It just gets boring to see the same thing over and over again. I stopped watching after the Rukia retrieval arc because of that reason. No one really improved after that.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:24 pm

johnstang2 wrote:If you are talking strictly Bleach fillers then I really have nothing to add really because I have not seen the manga.

However if you talk about fillers in general then I do have something to add. We all know they exist in anime. They are the stories in anime that exist that was not part of the original manga.

I know about fillers from Naruto (not shippuden).

Spoiler:
In the Manga Naruto leaves for his three year Journey with Juraiya right after the failed Sasuke retrieval arc. Jump ahead and the next episode should have been the beginning of the Shippuden. However we all know that Naruto went on for another 100 to 150 more episodes after that before the Shippuden. Those were all filler episodes. For the most part I enjoyed some of them and gagged on quite a few of them.

Why did they have fillers? Two reasons. One is the Shippuden manga was not out yet. And two the anime was trying to make as much money off the anime's then popularity as they possibly can.

We will always have filler episodes for these two main reasons. It really makes no sense to complain about them.

Exactly......now lets get back to complaining about Bleach. Laughing

Does anyone else get increasingly annoyed that Ichigo's sisters are normal? I mean the one can see spirits but she never gains the slightest power despite having the same blood as Ichigo. Now for a while I justified this thought with "there aren't two soul reapers stupid enough to lend their powers to a human and Ichigo only has powers because that started everything". But now we know
Spoiler:
Ichigo's mother was a quincy. So why can't either of them develop quincy abilities? Ichigo's other friends developed amazing powers and they didn't even have it in their blood. So why can't either of them have anything?

I mean a shinigami and a quincy have three kids and only one of their kids gets any real power? How is this not the anime equivalent of the Incredibles family?

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by johnstang2 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:42 pm

Metazoxan wrote:
johnstang2 wrote:If you are talking strictly Bleach fillers then I really have nothing to add really because I have not seen the manga.

However if you talk about fillers in general then I do have something to add. We all know they exist in anime. They are the stories in anime that exist that was not part of the original manga.

I know about fillers from Naruto (not shippuden).

Spoiler:
In the Manga Naruto leaves for his three year Journey with Juraiya right after the failed Sasuke retrieval arc. Jump ahead and the next episode should have been the beginning of the Shippuden. However we all know that Naruto went on for another 100 to 150 more episodes after that before the Shippuden. Those were all filler episodes. For the most part I enjoyed some of them and gagged on quite a few of them.

Why did they have fillers? Two reasons. One is the Shippuden manga was not out yet. And two the anime was trying to make as much money off the anime's then popularity as they possibly can.

We will always have filler episodes for these two main reasons. It really makes no sense to complain about them.

Exactly......now lets get back to complaining about Bleach. Laughing

Does anyone else get increasingly annoyed that Ichigo's sisters are normal? I mean the one can see spirits but she never gains the slightest power despite having the same blood as Ichigo. Now for a while I justified this thought with "there aren't two soul reapers stupid enough to lend their powers to a human and Ichigo only has powers because that started everything". But now we know
Spoiler:
Ichigo's mother was a quincy. So why can't either of them develop quincy abilities? Ichigo's other friends developed amazing powers and they didn't even have it in their blood. So why can't either of them have anything?

I mean a shinigami and a quincy have three kids and only one of their kids gets any real power? How is this not the anime equivalent of the Incredibles family?

I am pleased you liked it now ... ahem ...

Spoiler:
While it is true that Rukia loaned her powers to Ichigo, the real reason Ichigo could not give those powers back so easily was because deep down he had his own Soul Repear powers. Once Rukia's power was forcibly taken back he had to get in touch with those powers. He probably would have been a quincy first if his mother was still with him to train him. I wonder if when a quincy die they turn into Soul Repears sooner or later.

If what you say is true then (I have no idea since I stopped watching after the Rukia rescue arc and don't read the manga), then it really makes perfect sense why his sisters did not develop powers of their own. Ichigo is first born so he gets the powers.

As for his friends they are byproducts of knowing Ichigo and being in the infected area. No one outside that prefecture really got any kind of power. However many people in that prefecture got the ability to see things they normally wouldn't see like Soul Repears for example. It must suck for them hehe.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:46 pm

johnstang2 wrote:
Metazoxan wrote:
johnstang2 wrote:If you are talking strictly Bleach fillers then I really have nothing to add really because I have not seen the manga.

However if you talk about fillers in general then I do have something to add. We all know they exist in anime. They are the stories in anime that exist that was not part of the original manga.

I know about fillers from Naruto (not shippuden).

Spoiler:
In the Manga Naruto leaves for his three year Journey with Juraiya right after the failed Sasuke retrieval arc. Jump ahead and the next episode should have been the beginning of the Shippuden. However we all know that Naruto went on for another 100 to 150 more episodes after that before the Shippuden. Those were all filler episodes. For the most part I enjoyed some of them and gagged on quite a few of them.

Why did they have fillers? Two reasons. One is the Shippuden manga was not out yet. And two the anime was trying to make as much money off the anime's then popularity as they possibly can.

We will always have filler episodes for these two main reasons. It really makes no sense to complain about them.

Exactly......now lets get back to complaining about Bleach. Laughing

Does anyone else get increasingly annoyed that Ichigo's sisters are normal? I mean the one can see spirits but she never gains the slightest power despite having the same blood as Ichigo. Now for a while I justified this thought with "there aren't two soul reapers stupid enough to lend their powers to a human and Ichigo only has powers because that started everything". But now we know
Spoiler:
Ichigo's mother was a quincy. So why can't either of them develop quincy abilities? Ichigo's other friends developed amazing powers and they didn't even have it in their blood. So why can't either of them have anything?

I mean a shinigami and a quincy have three kids and only one of their kids gets any real power? How is this not the anime equivalent of the Incredibles family?

I am pleased you liked it now ... ahem ...

Spoiler:
While it is true that Rukia loaned her powers to Ichigo, the real reason Ichigo could not give those powers back so easily was because deep down he had his own Soul Repear powers. Once Rukia's power was forcibly taken back he had to get in touch with those powers. He probably would have been a quincy first if his mother was still with him to train him. I wonder if when a quincy die they turn into Soul Repears sooner or later.

If what you say is true then (I have no idea since I stopped watching after the Rukia rescue arc and don't read the manga), then it really makes perfect sense why his sisters did not develop powers of their own. Ichigo is first born so he gets the powers.

As for his friends they are byproducts of knowing Ichigo and being in the infected area. No one outside that prefecture really got any kind of power. However many people in that prefecture got the ability to see things they normally wouldn't see like Soul Repears for example. It must suck for them hehe.

Why does only the first born get the power?

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by johnstang2 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Why is it that the first born of anything always gets the stuff and responsibilities? Cause that is the way it is!!

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:19 pm

johnstang2 wrote:Why is it that the first born of anything always gets the stuff and responsibilities? Cause that is the way it is!!

That is the way many cultures did it but that logic fails here since

1. Since the power is inherited and not something passed on like an heirloom it goes to everyone in the blood line not just the first one. How else could the Quincy have become such a large group at one point? They didn't just pass their powers on to their first born.

2. His sisters aren't completely powerless and his one sister has spirit awareness equal to what he had at the start of the series. So there is no reason to assume they couldn't have gained powers in fact with everything that happened powers should have triggered inside them as well.

Unless Tite says at any point that power is somehow only passed to the first born then it is passed to all children.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Hatless on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:29 pm


bleach

just bleach

it doesnt need to make sense

if bleach starts making sense i will start worrying.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by LunarLexal on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:04 pm

I hate how it has so many loose ends. What the heck happened to Nel?
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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Shinimagami on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:31 pm

Well I'll try not to mention the evil 'filler'...but other than the writing, the character development kinda blows chunks too after the Rukia arch.
Remember when Renji was cool?....yea...apparently after the Rukia arch he sucks. You'd think someone with 'captain' potential would grow in power and what not....but Renji just 'stays the same' (for lack of a better term). Other than in some of the fillers, you really don't see Renji training with any other captains to develop his skills any further, and you don't really see much improvement with any of the other secondary characters.
As a writer, this bothers me...because it's like they depend on Ichigo to save their butts every time they get into trouble...I mean, can no one hold their own...EVER!!!....other than the captains.

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Re: Bleach Dissing Thread

Post by Metazoxan on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:42 pm

LunarLexal wrote:I hate how it has so many loose ends. What the heck happened to Nel?
She showed up again in the recent arc but really she only existed for that one scene where she turns out to be a former espada. That was it. Tite wrote her character purely for that shock moment.
Shinimagami wrote:Well I'll try not to mention the evil 'filler'...but other than the writing, the character development kinda blows chunks too after the Rukia arch.
Remember when Renji was cool?....yea...apparently after the Rukia arch he sucks. You'd think someone with 'captain' potential would grow in power and what not....but Renji just 'stays the same' (for lack of a better term). Other than in some of the fillers, you really don't see Renji training with any other captains to develop his skills any further, and you don't really see much improvement with any of the other secondary characters.
As a writer, this bothers me...because it's like they depend on Ichigo to save their butts every time they get into trouble...I mean, can no one hold their own...EVER!!!....other than the captains.
Well he does improve a little. Her gets that new bow, those blade things, and taht super explosion technique. But the problem is his attacks never pack a punch. I mean he can fire a million arrows all he wants but if none of them can hurt anything stronger than a mid class enemy what good are they? That is basically his problem. He has useful techniques but none of them carry enough power to do anything.

But still Tite starts off Renji like he is going to be kinda like Ichigo's rival but Ichigo almost immediately leaves him in the dust after the Rukia arc. Ranji gets that one time where he uses that final form and then he is never that strong again. I MEAN HE NEARLY KILLED A CAPTIAN IN ONE HIT! Plus with this recent arc we see Quincy have the potential to be unbelievably powerful so what excuse does Renji have?

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