Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Blazer on Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:35 pm

Perhaps I should play this....DF gave it 9/10...

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Deathfire123 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:13 pm

BlurredExistence wrote:
Deathfire123 wrote:
BlurredExistence wrote:That may be true for most AVNs but i don't think that's the case in Katawa Shoujo. The focus is entirely on the actual act (or process should i say) of "making love" and is far far to technical in it's description, i would go so far to say that the emotions seem completely overshadowed by it. Actually, despite the fact that i defended them earlier, i do think they are probably the worst written scenes in this VN.

I see your point and raise you one Lilly's 3rd H-Scene, one Hanako's H-scene, one Rin's 1st H-scene, and one Shizune's Bad Ending H-Scene, all which bring a lot of plot into the elements of making love, and affect the story in major ways

Hmm. I'm gonna answer those in order that i most vividly remember them (in spoilers).

Spoiler:
Rin's 1st H-scene was a continuation of the implication that she's self-destructing for her art, which is already established by the cigarette smoking scene, as well as the subsequent scene in the art gallery where she breaks down due to the pressure and therefore isn't vital.

Hanako's a difficult one... err i don't know how to judge it since it's so poorly written when i first played thru it i was convinced that it was practically rape, i was really uncomfortable during my first read of that scene. The emotions totally weren't conveyed properly (at least to me). If it wasn't for later scenes that reference back to it i wouldn't have any understanding of the significance of what happened, and since that is the case is the scene necessary? Couldn't we have the same effect just by referencing the fact that they had spent a night together?

Shizune's (that's the scene with Misha right?), it's already established that Misha loves Shizune it's already obvious her reason for sleeping with Hisao and it's obvious to everyone what the result of such an action would be and this is all kind of established out of the actual scene so... is it necessary for us to sit thru and watch it?

Tbh i cannot remember Lilly's 3rd H-scene at all. Probably because every time i've played thru the VN she's always been the last story i do and by that point cause all the H-scenes are written in this very technical, almost emotionless, ways that they've all blurred together so much that in my mind the scenes become "and they had sex". So you'll have to remind me of the significance of that one.

I really don't want to be overly critical about it like i am. I do love this VN and every time i play thru the various stories i sit thru and read all the H-scenes but they are really poorly written, they are quite dull scenes with little passion or emotion in them written in an overly technical and almost detached way, and no matter how much you love the VN you've got to be honest and admit that (altho having said that it is just my opinion so i won't get annoyed if you don't), it's not a discredit to the overall brilliance of the VN, cause the rest is superbly written, it's a very minor thing.

Responses in spoilers

Spoiler:

Rin's 1st H-scene is the final piece to the breaking of her character. Throughout the entire route she's looking for an out to properly express herself, so that someone, anyone, can understand her. Everything fails, and her last glimmer of hope is Hisao. She tries to use Hisao to express her thoughts fully, so the H-scene happens. It was completely unromantic, awkward, and so unfocused on the fact that they were actually doing anything H-worthy. It represents her character finally breaking and losing hope on Hisao, the one thing she still had hope in to express her true feelings.

Hanako's H-scene is exactly what you said. Awkward. That'a how it was supposed to be. Hanako was trying to prove to Hisao that she doesn't need a knight in shining armour to save her. She wanted to get it through Hisao's skull that she wants to be looked at as an equal, not a project. Which is why she goes as far as she does. She realized though that no matter how much she wanted Hisao, she couldn't fake something she wasn't ready for, thus why the H-scene was so awkward.

Misha's H-scene was a complete break in character for Hisao and it shows his inability to be decisive throughout her route. He wasn't able to choose Shizune over Misha and ended up paying for it.

Lilly's 3rd H-scene was where Hisao had his heart flutter. And it solidifies Lilly's decision to leave for Scotland as she fears Hisao wouldn't be ready to fully take on their relationship and she would constantly feel uneasy.

Yes. They could have chosen other ways to do things. But all of these scenes are tasteful and not done just for the sex. It shows a build in character.
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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Deathfire123 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:17 pm

BlurredExistence wrote:Actually here's a question for you: Did any of the H-scenes turn you on?

That's the true objective of any H-scene, not to advance the plot, not to convey emotions, but to turn the reader on. And it's not the image that's key in that effort (tho it definitely helps) but the description of what's happening, of what each partner is doing to the other and how they feel as they "make love".

If it fails to do that then it's failed as a H-scene and is therefore a bit of a pointless addition (could just be replaced by some other type of scene). Fact.

Not all H-scenes are meant to turn you on. A LOT OF THEM are there to advance plot or convey emotions. It shows a deepening of relationships that can satisfy the reader. Many people are unsatisfied with just a kiss as the end point for a relationship. While most eroge do make H-scenes simply to turn on the reader. A lot of them don't, and this includes Katawa Shoujo. The reason for the H-scenes in Katawa Shoujo is to advance plot and convey emotions, and not to entice the reader. It keeps the spirit of eroge in tact, showing a realistic advancement of a relationship, not just a kiss and then it ends there.

And to answer your question. Some did. Probably the Bath H-scene the most.
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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Wampa on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:53 pm

just as my two cents the H scenes in this didn't turn me and i saw a need in some way or another for most of them i do recall one or two that did seem rather random and not needed, the scene with emi in the equipment shack comes to mind as not advancing anything in particular besides learning that the captain of the track team was gay

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Deathfire123 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:04 pm

Wampa wrote:just as my two cents the H scenes in this didn't turn me and i saw a need in some way or another for most of them i do recall one or two that did seem rather random and not needed, the scene with emi in the equipment shack comes to mind as not advancing anything in particular besides learning that the captain of the track team was gay

Best scene in the game.

Close Runnerup:
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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Valvatorez on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:16 pm




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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by BlurredExistence on Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:41 pm

Deathfire123 wrote:
BlurredExistence wrote:Actually here's a question for you: Did any of the H-scenes turn you on?

That's the true objective of any H-scene, not to advance the plot, not to convey emotions, but to turn the reader on. And it's not the image that's key in that effort (tho it definitely helps) but the description of what's happening, of what each partner is doing to the other and how they feel as they "make love".

If it fails to do that then it's failed as a H-scene and is therefore a bit of a pointless addition (could just be replaced by some other type of scene). Fact.

Not all H-scenes are meant to turn you on. A LOT OF THEM are there to advance plot or convey emotions. It shows a deepening of relationships that can satisfy the reader. Many people are unsatisfied with just a kiss as the end point for a relationship. While most eroge do make H-scenes simply to turn on the reader. A lot of them don't, and this includes Katawa Shoujo. The reason for the H-scenes in Katawa Shoujo is to advance plot and convey emotions, and not to entice the reader. It keeps the spirit of eroge in tact, showing a realistic advancement of a relationship, not just a kiss and then it ends there.

And to answer your question. Some did. Probably the Bath H-scene the most.

Again while it is true in most AVNs they do serve the purpose of advancing plot their main, MAIN, objective is always to turn you on, to full fill human horniness desire. Seriously, if that wasn't their main purpose other scenes could take their place easily, for instance you could easily make intimate scenes with passionate and emotional heart to hearts culminating in a deep and sensual lover's kiss, just as things are handled in non-AVNs (ie. Clannad which manages to do without a single H-scene thruout the VN).

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Wampa on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:24 am

so i finished my final route in this which was Lily's and got the good end and i must say i really liked lily's ending but i still feel like i liked emi's and hanako's routes better and rin's and shizune's would probably be my bottom two. I didnt really like shizune as a character so thats probably why i didnt like that route but rin's just felt weird to me, i thought i would like it but i didnt maybe it was because of my dislike of nomiya but idk....my first vn is finished though with 98% complete and the other scenes just being chooses i dont have a save for so on to a new one i suppose

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by BlurredExistence on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:48 am

Am i the only one who found that Rin talked a lot of sense?

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Wampa on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:52 am

i agree she spoke words of wisdom that could be very deep, when she made sense and didnt ramble i just couldnt get into her route for whatever reason, i liked her as a character and all but there was just something in the route for me that hindered it

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by BlurredExistence on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:03 am

I think her route is the worst because it falls apart in the most chaotic of fashions. You've got two people thrown together neither of whom can really understand the other and when it comes to the major crash you can just see it all coming and no way to avoid it.

I must admit when i first played her route (the very first time) i was on course for her bad ending and the way that argument went... well i couldn't take it, it was so frustrating and so upsetting that i actually for, i think, the first time in a VN said "No! I ain't accepting this outcome!" and reloaded my last save straight away.

In fact when playing thru her bad end to do the 100% completion i think i basically skipped over it, i didn't want to see someone so raw and emotionally vulnerable to be ripped apart and left to fend for herself that way.

I tell you what Hisao is a bit of a selfish arse in some of the bad ends.

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by Deathfire123 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:33 pm

I personally think it's the BEST BECAUSE it INTENTIONALLY falls apart in every sense.

The route is about understanding the person you're with and that's the exact OPPOSITE thing Hisao does for the majority of the route. He's only looking at his own side of things. He notices Rin's downward spiral and he wants to help her, but he never does the right thing, because he can't understand Rin.

It's heart-breaking. It's like being right beside the person you love but one of you can't see and the other person doesn't know how to talk. Communication is almost impossible, and that's how nearly all of the problems happen in her route.
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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by BlurredExistence on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:10 pm

Deathfire123 wrote:I personally think it's the BEST BECAUSE it INTENTIONALLY falls apart in every sense.

The route is about understanding the person you're with and that's the exact OPPOSITE thing Hisao does for the majority of the route. He's only looking at his own side of things. He notices Rin's downward spiral and he wants to help her, but he never does the right thing, because he can't understand Rin.

It's heart-breaking. It's like being right beside the person you love but one of you can't see and the other person doesn't know how to talk. Communication is almost impossible, and that's how nearly all of the problems happen in her route.

I totally agree. It's also heart rending to see her struggle with herself, constantly frustrated by an inability to truly express herself with the word, feeling completely isolated and lone even when surrounded by people. It makes you want to understand her all the more, and you spend her arch trying to mentally push Hisao to try harder.

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by theguywiththeface on Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:24 pm

Last post March 21st. Well I'm late to the party on this one. but eh, what the hell. It was a while ago so I'm going off memory but I've beaten the game 100% and I Loved all the endings, the good ones that is, but the top 3 for me personally would have to be 1. Lilly 2. Rin 3. Hanako. Really It could be a tie for first with lilly and rin though both were really touching. (Note: H has no influence in my ratings)
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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by BlurredExistence on Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:32 pm

theguywiththeface wrote:but the top 3 for me personally would have to be 1. Lilly

Interesting. Why Lilly's at number 1?

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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by theguywiththeface on Sat May 04, 2013 2:48 am

That's actually tough to explain, I guess the best explanation I have is. Lilly's almost constant and genuine concern for Hisao is something I enjoyed and found quite touching. Yes, the others did have the same thing but Lilly took it to a whole other level as I recall. Rin is at a close second because, though solid, the ending for her route left a bit to be desired imo.
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Re: Visual Novel Discussion Thread: Katawa Shoujo

Post by BlurredExistence on Mon May 06, 2013 10:37 pm

I know what you mean man, Lilly has such a warm and caring nature it's almost motherly, it's hard not to love her, so i feel that more than makes up for her story arch being the gentlest, quietest and most relaxed in pace.

Also know what you mean with Rin's ending. I really craved something better but based upon everything that we know about both Rin, Hisao and the events that transpired between them i'm afraid realistically that's the best we could get. Maybe if that incarnation of Hiaso wasn't such a tool then maybe it could have gone better.

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